Debate

Earlier today I got into a little bit of a debate…well not really a debate as such but a discussion over at my friend Yoshi’s Blog. It was about a news report and YouTube video that detailed a Marine throwing a puppy off a Cliff.

Disgusting yes, inhumane yes. I find the mans actions to be reprehensible.

That being said what I did not agree with was several Posters leaping to the conclusion that this one mans deplorable action somehow was representative of the the Marines in general. As you can well imagine many of the Posters are, like myself, animal lovers and were justifiably outraged that a human being could do something like that to a puppy.

Seeing as how my Family is directly related to the Military I am well aware that I am biased towards the Military but I just could not sit by and watch people take a one mans idiocy and turn it into hate mongering for an entire group of people. I know a great many people serving today and I can all but guarantee that every single one of them would be seriously offended by what happened and completely unable to grasp how a human being could do something like that.

You just shouldn’t take the actions of one man and brand an entire group with them, it’s unfair and I’ll speak up about it every single time.

Note: I am not providing any links to this, if anyone wants a link to it I will provide it on a ‘by-request’ basis. I just don’t feel the need to perpetuate this any further publicly.

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4 Responses to “Debate”

  1. Zenichi-Maro Says:

    I have made this point on Yoshi’s blog, and will make it here: It’s not hate-mongering to point out the nexus between the culture of the military and the events of recent note. The military produces soldiers trained to do two things: Follow orders and kill. There is no thought process, there is no grey area. Your family was in the military, and I respect that (and their service), but you were not and, therefore, may not totally understand this.

    The boot camp experience is one of breaking down people, eliminating any and all independent thought, and encouraging violence as a mode of conflict resolution. I went through this as a specialist in the US Army. I went through boot and was in the sniper school at Bragg. I was horrified by the person that my country wanted me to become…so I left. Obviously, not everyone who goes through boot is going to turn out a psycho, but the process of chipping away at a human’s natural capacity for empathy, understanding, and compassion will, necessarily, result in this kind of action. To wit:

    Haditha
    Mei Lei
    Okinawa (several rapes at the hands of US Marines)
    Nan Jing (at the hand of the Japanese in WWII)

    Just to name a few.

    I’m glad that you defend your family’s service, but please do not do so blindly. The culture of the military is the culture of mindless killing. There is nothing you can tell me, having been there myself, that will convince me otherwise.

    Cheers,

    ZNM

  2. abraxus Says:

    It should be pointed out that the Quotations I put around the word “post” were not intended to represent sarcasm. I went back and re-read your initial Post and in all honestly it was entirely inflammatory, especially with the last line reading the way it did that’s why I used the quotations. It didn’t seem to me a reply to a Post so much as ‘Flame Bait’.

    My only issue was that you were ‘painting with a broad brush’ at the start and only after that did you point out specific instances.

    I disagree that the Marines sole intent in training a soldier is to come out with someone who follows orders without question and kills at will. That was your experience but I would suggest that the if that is the end product they receive then there was something leaning towards that from the start.

    I’ll concede that people are a product of the social groups they interact with and a certain amount of “mob mentality” can and does come into play but there is only so much you can attribute to that before you have to look at a persons own private choices.

    In short (too late for that I know) it’s not the message you were trying to get across that I had a problem with but the method you were using to do it and again the ‘broad strokes’ you used.

    I’m not defending anything blindly. I’ve seen my fair share of completely warped actions involving both the Military and the Civilian Communities, but at no point did I come out saying it was the Group that made it happen . Sometimes it contributed but I believe in the end people are responsible for the things they do and should not be allowed to use anything else as a shield.

  3. Zenichi-Maro Says:

    Hello:

    Well, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. What I’ve said on Yoshi’s, as well as your, blog is the result of both historical understanding and personal experience. I do agree with you that an element of personal choice is involved–is always involved–in the actions we take, but I remain convinced that one cannot discount, or discounts at one’s peril, the impact and the overarching importance of culture. In this case, my examples and my argumenation revolve around the culture of the military, in which I did serve and about whichi I make statements based on first- not second-hand experience.

    Finally, on reading and re-reading my original post, I am hard-pressed to find anything resembling “flame bait,” but have already offered apologies for any offence.

    Cheers,

    ZNM

  4. Zenichi-Maro Says:

    Oh…one other thing: The typical mode of argument is to go from the general to the specific. Hence, I may have started with a generalisation, but you’ve even conceded that in the course of my argumentation the general moved to the specific. It’s a rather conventional approach to rhetoric, so I didn’t–and don’t– think it offensive.

    So much for thinking, I suppose!

    Cheers,

    ZNM

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